I'm locking this until the Elwood decision is confirmed one way or another...

Great win everything went well on the night Let's see how we perform next week

I based my criticism of the coaching set up and EE as head of that set up on the basic assumption that what we were seeing was a failure by those coaches to impose they respective ideas and techniques/strategys on the players at their disposal on a daily basis.

It would appear, based on what we saw tonight, that i was wrong to assume that and the problem clearly lies with the players and their attitude and application on a game by game basis.

Leaving the Dan Parks effect to one side for the minute, our defence was excellent, line out solid throughout, breakdown work fantastic. We started poorly imo in terms of kick chase and line speed but that improved from about the 10th min on.

If we take the first 10 min and separate it from the rest of the game, Dans first kick to bounce and find touch around our 10m line in front of the clan(it got agreat response from the clan). Leinster managed to take it quickly, undoing his good work, because TOH and others were lazy in their chase as they have been in the past. This happened once more in that 10 min but improved dramatically after that.
Joc was penalised, rightly imo, for going off his feet and in the side for their first pen which made it 3-0 to them. We must have went from minute 10 to minute 40 without giving a peno away at the breakdown again.
IMo the big difference was Parks and Whites leadership and constant talking and demanding more from around them.
So if a team can perform like this tonight, in terms of defence, handling, lineout etc the work in training clearly must have been done so the poor performance in games 1 to 4 must, in the main, be down to player application,workrate and attitude.
On that assumption the only thing coaches can be criticised for is not being ruthless enough(selection wise) in terms of underperformance and poor work rate. The injury list would have undermined any attempts in this regard but i want, in future, to watch a connacht team who know that retention of the jersey on their back depends solely on their performance, workrate and attitude during gametime and in training. It hasnt always appeared that way but i accept that appearances can be decieving. They shouldnt be though.

if money and big name players was the only factor in the equation thne french teams would be walking over everyone..its not. Talent takes over and will normally win out only after the hard graft is put in first and foremost both on and off the pitch. An attitude and culture is built from the ground up connacht are thought of as a soft touch and this was probably true when the team was full of journey men, thankfully our academy is starting to get going at last these are connacht men who along with talent should be instilled with a kind of religious fervor for the jersey like our brother provinces. If little greece can win a european championship we can hold the rabo trophy aloft

its not bunkum actually. Sport professionally and otherwise is littered with teams who regularly box above their weight especially at home. your statement is predominantly true when it comes to winning trophies but home results are as much about a teams(players, management and supporters) attitude and application as it is about resources. Everton in premiership, Exeter in AP, Munster in early days of HEC just to name a few.
What should never happen is surrendering 4 points tamely like we have done in our first 2 home games and in 3 or 4 lge games last season. The leinsters and munsters will come to to town and win if they bring their a team and right attitude but they shouldnt do it without a fight( which to be fair they usually get) the rest we should always be confident of taking and apply ourselves to the task of doing that. It wont always work out that way but it should be always be obvious to the supporters that the team left it all out there.

We finished with 37 points last year (down from 39 the season before). It was a world cup year but we had about 15/16 new names and had lost some decent players so arguably that countered the world cup element.

Some teams have stregthened but arguably Cardiff and Dragons are weaker, Glasgow look slightly weaker, Zebre are going to be a while finding their shape, the likes of Edinburgh have strengthened but not many teams have made signings that'd make you say they have strengthened the squad significantly. Ulster have at best stayed where they are overall. Musnter look a slight bit stronger but have lost some good players.

Given the squad is much more settled this season and we made a few decent signings and given how many tight games went against us last season my aim for this season was not unrealistically in my view 44 points (2 pts average per game). If the target of management was below that I'd be worried

Already I have given up hope of that target and even matching the 37 points of last season looks unlikely going by what I've seen so far. We will almost certainly have 5/6 points from our first 6/7 games which puts us seriously on the back foot.

If the Zebre game goes badly, its hard to know where our season can go from there.

OldSchool wrote: At the end of the day Connacht is now a business and we need results to make the business grow
Lets all support the Management and Players who are there fighting for us and Let the business men make the Changes

Connacht Abu

Agreed.

but...

players and coaches are paid to get results and that's the bottom line.

....

IMO Connacht at home = Win

As mentioned above, you have 12 squads and coaches in the league, all paid to get results. If in some hypothetical seasons everyone of them do their job properly how many can be deemed to have 'got the results' at the end of the season? 6, maybe 7?

If Connacht's wage bill for playing and coaching staff is so small relative to other clubs, doesn't it make sense that supporters from other clubs should expect to beat Connacht almost every time?

rossie wrote: I think you are crediting me in error with the first quote there creedance but i admire your optimism or upbeat point of view.

In relation to the 7 game losing streak(potential) refered to it was precisely that point i was making. with the exception of Zebre we can only expect to lose those games and hope for something more from them.
This amplifies the significance of those losses to cardiff and the scarlets at home and to a lesser extent away to Glasgow. The two home games were there for the winning as was the away game and if we had won the two home games in particular we could as supporters look forward to these coming fixtures with anticipation and not fear. Losing streaks of this magnitude are damaging for the everyone involved in the club, from supporters to players, management, marketing etc.
We went on a losing streak for 14 games last season and we all know how that felt. That should have been the exception or a one off but we now find ourselves looking potentially at a run like that again. What makes that worse is we are doing so by making the same or very similar mistakes as last season. Missing tackles, Poor kicking, handling errors etc.
All anyone wants is to see that the team is progressing. we cant say that. we are in our 2nd season min with this coaching ticket and we are still doing the same things wrong and we are trying to implement the simplest game plan possible. We kick the ball for territory and we pressurise the reciever and we defend and we struggle to implement that.
Thats why people are frustrated and in some cases angry. Not because we wont beat Leinster or ulster. I didnt start this thread but i believe that its theme should be discussed, both here, in the clan and in the realms of the connacht branch. Not specifically about eric but the whole coaching ticket.
Yes we have a lot of injuries but the players on the pitch were more than capable of winning those games and failed to bo so. That has been going on in this club for far too long and shouldnt be just accepted. There are losing cultures just as there are winning ones. The main difference is attitude, attitude or willingness to accept or reject the your lot as it were.

Rossie, I can see where you're coming from and I don't have a lot that I fundamentally disagree with. The bit I do disagree with is the last paragraph because it is bunkum, but is bandied about by supporters of all manner of sports teams. The problem is that sport is a zero sum game and resources are the primary determinant.

connachtexile wrote: Rossie didn't write that I did.

Apologies - copy and paste error.

Creedence wrote: 7 games - Scarlets (H), Glasgow (A), Leinster (H), Ulster (A), Zebre (A), Quins (H), Ospreys (A)

So you've got the two HEC finalists, the Rabo champions, and the English champions. We should lose every one of those games (put yourself in the position of a supporter of any one of those teams if you have a problem with that). If we don't it is a bonus.

That leaves one game we have a chance in (Scarlets), one away that is unlikely(Glasgow) and one away we should expect to win - forget the rest. Getting beaten by a Scarlets side with their internationals or losing a match in Scotland is hardly a shock, even if the manner of the defeats was unsettling. So pinning the whole 'not bear thinking about' on one away game against an Italian side that are finding their feet is a bit mad. We have no divine right to beat Zebre every time we play them. 3 wins from the 4 games this season would be acceptable IMO, and one of those is in the bag already.

Connacht are a professional rugby team, the amateur days are gone, players and coaches are paid to get results and that's the bottom line. Everybody used to comment on how hard it is to visit the sports ground and get a result - that fear is gone

This is not a new squad of players there are a lot of players that have been with Connacht for 5 plus years, most of the management have been with Connacht for 10 plus years (EE of course our hero)
Connacht now have the back room staff in place and all weather training facilities

IMO Connacht at home = Win

If you don't have the player's you adapt your game plan to your team strengths (forwards) and your player strengths

At the end of the day Connacht is now a business and we need results to make the business grow
Lets all support the Management and Players who are there fighting for us and Let the business men make the Changes

Connacht Abu

I think you are crediting me in error with the first quote there creedance but i admire your optimism or upbeat point of view.

In relation to the 7 game losing streak(potential) refered to it was precisely that point i was making. with the exception of Zebre we can only expect to lose those games and hope for something more from them.
This amplifies the significance of those losses to cardiff and the scarlets at home and to a lesser extent away to Glasgow. The two home games were there for the winning as was the away game and if we had won the two home games in particular we could as supporters look forward to these coming fixtures with anticipation and not fear. Losing streaks of this magnitude are damaging for the everyone involved in the club, from supporters to players, management, marketing etc.
We went on a losing streak for 14 games last season and we all know how that felt. That should have been the exception or a one off but we now find ourselves looking potentially at a run like that again. What makes that worse is we are doing so by making the same or very similar mistakes as last season. Missing tackles, Poor kicking, handling errors etc.
All anyone wants is to see that the team is progressing. we cant say that. we are in our 2nd season min with this coaching ticket and we are still doing the same things wrong and we are trying to implement the simplest game plan possible. We kick the ball for territory and we pressurise the reciever and we defend and we struggle to implement that.
Thats why people are frustrated and in some cases angry. Not because we wont beat Leinster or ulster. I didnt start this thread but i believe that its theme should be discussed, both here, in the clan and in the realms of the connacht branch. Not specifically about eric but the whole coaching ticket.
Yes we have a lot of injuries but the players on the pitch were more than capable of winning those games and failed to bo so. That has been going on in this club for far too long and shouldnt be just accepted. There are losing cultures just as there are winning ones. The main difference is attitude, attitude or willingness to accept or reject the your lot as it were.

rossie wrote:

Believe me there's nothing more that I'd like to do is eat humble pie at the end of the season and say I was wrong but I don't see it happening at the moment.


That depends on what you see as an acceptable outcome for the season. Improvement in results and table position can only come at the expense of a deterioration in results by other teams. I'm not hearing any argument as to why that should happen.

Rossie didn't write that I did.

I can't help myself so here goes.

For starters: we've had an unacceptable start to the season and undoubtedly should have more points than we have. Things have to improve - that is a given.

IMO they will. Others might see it as blind faith, I see it as basic common sense. We are better than we have shown and Rossies fix list above is pretty indisputable. All that needs doing is stuff that was being done last season, plus kicking the ball between the posts - nothing fancy.

The big question as I see it is, is it possible to improve and maintain a level of performance that will match the rise in expectations?

rossie wrote: Believe me there's nothing more that I'd like to do is eat humble pie at the end of the season and say I was wrong but I don't see it happening at the moment.

That depends on what you see as an acceptable outcome for the season. Improvement in results and table position can only come at the expense of a deterioration in results by other teams. I'm not hearing any argument as to why that should happen.

rossie wrote: The big picture here too is that it prob isnt going to get any better any time soon as we have leinster friday, Ulster the following week, a huge game away against Zebre in the HEC, Quins at home and Ospreys away. So if we dont get the result against Zebre, and we were quite lucky last time, we could be looking at a 7 game losing streak. It doesnt bear thinking about.

7 games - Scarlets (H), Glasgow (A), Leinster (H), Ulster (A), Zebre (A), Quins (H), Ospreys (A)

So you've got the two HEC finalists, the Rabo champions, and the English champions. We should lose every one of those games (put yourself in the position of a supporter of any one of those teams if you have a problem with that). If we don't it is a bonus.

That leaves one game we have a chance in (Scarlets), one away that is unlikely(Glasgow) and one away we should expect to win - forget the rest. Getting beaten by a Scarlets side with their internationals or losing a match in Scotland is hardly a shock, even if the manner of the defeats was unsettling. So pinning the whole 'not bear thinking about' on one away game against an Italian side that are finding their feet is a bit mad. We have no divine right to beat Zebre every time we play them. 3 wins from the 4 games this season would be acceptable IMO, and one of those is in the bag already.

The big picture here too is that it prob isnt going to get any better any time soon as we have leinster friday, Ulster the following week, a huge game away against Zebre in the HEC, Quins at home and Ospreys away. So if we dont get the result against Zebre, and we were quite lucky last time, we could be looking at a 7 game losing streak. It doesnt bear thinking about.

As Borders 2 said, Im not per se in the Elwood out camp, im also not in the ahhh sure its early in the season ,lack of resources , injuries ,sure what can we expect camp either.

I expect a basic level of skill sets and a basic level of tactical awareness,the scarlets came was in the bag if we adopted a simple down the tramlines and keep them under pressure, use the wind advantage.

as a fan i will give my all on the sideline, but please dont confuse my disappointment and irratation for a mob rule EE out rant. As a supporter i too share the hurt and pain of the players when they lose, we are all in this together.

Simply put, given our position we should have won the first 3 games and with a basic skill set/tactics could have won the last game.

If the players arent doing it on the pitch, they get dropped, if the mgmt arent doing it off the pitch then they too must be dropped.

Overall performances on and off the field must improve.

Anyone who follows this debate knows what camp I'm in. Hell I restarted the debate and I gotta applaud the points and passion of the guys in the Keep EE camp. The fact is though that EE has lost apart of the crowd and if results continue more will want him gone. Believe me there's nothing more that I'd like to do is eat humble pie at the end of the season and say I was wrong but I don't see it happening at the moment.