The man's a legend, but the back row is down the pecking order a bit as far as money layout is concerned. Don't think Connacht could afford to have him on the books even on a player/coach basis.

I'd take him. Maybe in a player/coach capacity but definitely.

Martyn Williams has not been offered a contract by the Cardiff Blues.
Specialised greatly experianced 7 would he be a candidate for linkball ???

Choco128.

I think that the whole point of linkball is systems over individuals.If the systems put in place are working you will have success and that in turn will attract interest in individual players from other teams who can offer more finacial reward. The recruitment part of the system/setup must then recruit effectively to adequately replace them with players who suit the system to ensure continuity.
Where Connacht were let down at end of season is that all their key players were out of contract at the same time which also happened to be a world cup year so they all got better offers from the other stronger provinces.(Imo given the benefit of hindsight Hagen, carr and maybe even Keatley would have stayed given the chance to make decision again but thats another issue).

Players will come and go, some we will miss and others we will be glad to see back of, thats the way of professional sport. As it turns out between flavin and Ethiene we have repaced Cronin, Loughney has replaced Hagen and Toh has stepped up to the mark and replaced Carr. Noc has struggled to replace Keatley but is improving to be fair. Where we are way behind all the other teams in the league imo is in the goalkicking department. All teams we have played have consistantly kicked their goals against us and we havent matched them in this area.

Thats why Dan Parks, which would be a linkball signing of sorts, if he comes could make a huge difference to our results and in turn everything else(confidence, attendances,profile etc). Stringer beside him would be even better. Moore and noc could share the positions with them and learn from them for the future. We have a Decent pack(scrum,lineout,maul and open play) we have some good backs(errors aside). Good experinced linkball signings at halfback(and goalkicking)could see us seriously competing for a HEC spot on our own merits which is all i for one want to see atm.

salmson wrote:

choco128 wrote: Im afraid this really wouldnt work. the key to the plan is to attract experienced players who could still player for there country(the likes of horgan or stringer) and the best under-age which will never leave the province unless they are pushed. i wish, but the best we can hope for is to pick up a couple of rough diamonds from the ail.

I disagree. Keatley, Carr, Cronin and Hagan were all AIL players with little or no provincial experience when we signed them - Hagan for instance had one substitute appearance for Leinster.

You could strongly argue that a talented AIL player has more scope for improvement than a provincial reject. Added to that they're cheaper and, not to sound too callous, if they don't work out (Sweeney, Fanning etc.) you can let them go after a year.

Even allowing for the fact that players take time to bed in - Niall O'Connor for instance looked hopeless earlier in the season but is putting a string of decent performances together now, David Moore is only getting his chance now due to injuries - at the end of this season we'll be left with at least a couple of duds we need to pay for another 12 months.

Not the point i was making, the linkball idea was based on good academy players and experienced pros all who could player(had the ablity to play for there country). Keatley, Carr and Hagan were all but finished at leinster when we got them and we did turn them around, Cronin was offered a better contract by us. The problem we have is we cant hold onto these players in order to progress.

I'd rather a rough diamond then some of the clapped out nags that have come through here!

choco128 wrote: Im afraid this really wouldnt work. the key to the plan is to attract experienced players who could still player for there country(the likes of horgan or stringer) and the best under-age which will never leave the province unless they are pushed. i wish, but the best we can hope for is to pick up a couple of rough diamonds from the ail.

I disagree. Keatley, Carr, Cronin and Hagan were all AIL players with little or no provincial experience when we signed them - Hagan for instance had one substitute appearance for Leinster.

You could strongly argue that a talented AIL player has more scope for improvement than a provincial reject. Added to that they're cheaper and, not to sound too callous, if they don't work out (Sweeney, Fanning etc.) you can let them go after a year.

Even allowing for the fact that players take time to bed in - Niall O'Connor for instance looked hopeless earlier in the season but is putting a string of decent performances together now, David Moore is only getting his chance now due to injuries - at the end of this season we'll be left with at least a couple of duds we need to pay for another 12 months.

Im afraid this really wouldnt work. the key to the plan is to attract experienced players who could still player for there country(the likes of horgan or stringer) and the best under-age which will never leave the province unless they are pushed. i wish, but the best we can hope for is to pick up a couple of rough diamonds from the ail.

I agree with a lot of what has been said. The Ulster Bank League could be a rich source of players for Connacht, particularly among the pack where I believe we lack depth.

Looking at individual players who've made the step up, there are plenty of examples. Damien Varley moved from Garryowen (I'm open to correction here) to Wasps when he was 24. Mike Ross was 24 or 25 when he moved to Harlequins. John Andress has carved out a good career for himself in the Premiership off the back of playing for Belfast Harlequins. Tom Hayes has been a relevation for Exeter since moving from Shannon. Leo Auva'a has scored 4 or 5 tries for Leinster this season having been plucked from Old Belvedere. Even people like Rob Sweeney, Simon Shawe and Jerry Cronin have done very useful jobs for Connacht, Leinster and Ulster based on their performances in the then AIB League.

How good would Connacht's pack be had those players signed for us instead of other teams? That may be said with the benefit of hindsight but the possibility of unheralded and relatively cheap players coming up from the UBL to help our squad still exists.English Championship teams have cottoned on to tis idea in a big way with most of those teams having a couple of Irish men on their books who didn't come from academies.

I think undervalued areas that should be explored are the UBL for forwards, other provincial academies for backs and the other provinces for players who feel they've something left in the tank but aren't getting enough game time. Peter Stringer is a good example of the latter.

exactly, coughlan is a very good example.

Munster appear to be preparing to do it again. All evidenc points to them releasing Alan Cotter after he graduates their acadamy at end of season. Alan has been playing tight head for young munsters in ail and, by all accounts, has been the top performing th in the league. Young munster rate him highly and its claimed he knows every trick in the book when it comes to scrummaging. He is largely anonymous in general play tho and as a result they dont appear to be willing to offer him any sort of deal. He is only 25 and mite be worth a punt.After all Young Munster do know a thing or two about producing tight head props,

It's never going to be a perfect system but it can help identify players that might have slipped through the system and are at least worth a second look. Take for example James Coughlan who signed his first professional contract in his twenties after been the top try scorer and rucker in the AIL (Div 2?) for a couple of seasons. He got signed on a short-term basis and never looked back. I'd look at the system and maybe if we could find a player or two give them a short-term contract (3 months), get them fit and see what they can do. We might find another McSharry.

When I watched Moneyball there a few weeks ago, one thing that kept crossing my mind was "can this be used by Connacht?". Then I realised, we've spent years digging around the bargain basement anyway, getting in players that had been passed over or had once been destined for greatness.

Of course the system isn't without it's pitfalls. I believe Liverpool went mad on Sabermetrics and what they have to show for it is Andy Carroll and Stewart Downing.

I think the increase in kicking is a symptom of defense first policies, teams recognize the advantage of turnover ball to the opposition so instead of risking turnover they give the ball back on their own terms and set the defense.

Sometimes we don't even chase the kicks, our defense is the number one priority.

It's pretty boring rugby, but the cycle will change again, why not us start that change.

Coach Ewen McKenzie set about signing scrapheap discards and young academy prospects when he took over in 2010, resisting the urge to go after one or two superstars.

I figured Connacht was already employing this strategy, just not very effectively.

Which brings us to Elsom's point. If Connacht want to get an edge they should work on being the most effective team in the league. His example is perfect. I am seeing a lot of box kicks and up and unders in the game not just from Connacht and I'd question their effectiveness. The kicks go 10, 15 maybe 20 metres downfield and if the kicking teams wins back 1 in 5 or 6 balls I'd be surprised. The possible reward does not seem to justify the more likely loss of possession. Connacht, I hope, is analysing every decision that is made during the course of a game and figuring how to do it better. Of course it's impossible to be perfect on the pitch over the course of an entire game, but I think Connacht could do much better even with the players they do have.

Rob Murphy was talking about how a Moneyball philosophy would suit Connacht well. I think that it is definitely something we should look at. In this type of system though the buck stops at the coach, there are no players who "didn't perform". It's all about player who fit the system.

Hey

Thought people might find this interesting its about the Queensland Reds (last years Champions) and how they built there new team on the 'Linkball' concept kinda like Moneyball in baseball.

THEY are cut-price champions built on the Moneyball philosophy of results over reputation, and Queensland have paved the way for every other Super Rugby franchise to overhaul their recruiting methods.

The Daily Telegraph can reveal the Reds team which claimed the 2011 Super Rugby title cost $1.5 million less than the Queensland side that finished second-last in 2009.

The incredible gulf in price and achievement shattered the myth that premierships can only be won by teams with the biggest names.

Coach Ewen McKenzie set about signing scrapheap discards and young academy prospects when he took over in 2010, resisting the urge to go after one or two superstars.

McKenzie, hamstrung by Queensland's enormous debt, was driven by a philosophy of backing his own intuition.

The success of "Linkball" is filtering to other sides, with the Brumbies, Western Force and New Zealand's Hurricanes most notably shunning high-profile signings after losing international players.

In the two years prior to McKenzie's arrival, Queensland lost established stars Chris Latham, Berrick Barnes, Stephen Moore, David Croft, Hugh McMenimen, Morgan Turinui, Sam Cordingley, Rodney Blake and Clinton Schifcofske.

But instead of targeting big-name, expensive stars, McKenzie used a Moneyball-type recruitment strategy and picked up players other teams deemed no longer good enough at Super Rugby level.

Radike Samo, Beau Robinson, Adam Wallace-Harrison and Guy Sheperdson were crucial to the Reds' success in 2011 but were essentially given lifelines by Queensland.

McKenzie abides by one important recruitment rule: "I only recruit players I believe can play for their country".

Many will have laughed at that mantra last year when McKenzie signed 37-year-old journeyman Samo and Robinson - who was pulling beers at a pub to make ends meet - but both went on to play for the Wallabies.

Flanker Robinson started playing for $2400 per game before he reached the five games necessary to activate a full-time contract.

Samo had toiled in obscurity for Japanese club Yokogawa Musashino Atlastars before returning to Australia.

Adam Wallace-Harrison returned from Japan looking for any opportunity while Sheperdson was recruited as a back-up prop.

Youngster Ben Tapuai went from rookie to international. The unheralded Jono Lance started at fullback in the decider while fellow Academy-contracted player Ian Prior managed six games last season.

Yet for all their remarkable achievements, the Reds still can't get any love from the bookmakers, who have listed them as outsiders in the first-round match against the Waratahs on February 25, and for the season in general.

NSW are favoured to win the Australian conference, but McKenzie has dismissed the odds as irrelevant.

"I don't know that the people who create those odds are necessarily that worldly but somebody's got to do it.

"One performance can change the odds very quickly."

McKenzie relishes the added pressure in Queensland.

"It's much better than going out there and no one thinks you're going to win - that's a much harder space to operate in," McKenzie said.

Reds skipper James Horwill said his side would be out to prove the doubters wrong, starting with round one.

"Obviously we haven't won over enough people by what we've done so far, we've got to continue to work hard and make sure we win over the people to make them believe we have the ability to win it again," Horwill said.

"Everything we've done as a group since November has been focused on that first game against the Waratahs."

Some of the philosophies down here are pretty interesting. Take this one by the Waraths...

TRYING to nail down a team list for Samoa in NSW's opening trial is tough enough, let alone finding some footage to analyse.

And that, according to Waratahs coach Michael Foley, is exactly the point. Foley will oversee his first match as head coach of the Waratahs tonight when they meet Samoa in Tamworth, and that will be followed by a trial against Tonga at the Sydney Football Stadium next Saturday.

Where other Aussie sides are warming up with matches against each other or Kiwi Super Rugby sides, Foley said booking games against "unpredictable" and largely unknown Pacific Island teams was a deliberate trials strategy to provide a unique test ahead of the opening round clash with the Queensland Reds.

"They are sides we don't often play, so the opportunity is for us to go into the game almost unprepared for the people we are playing, without any analysis of them, and being able to control a game in a way we want," Foley said.

"Whoever you play first-up in the competition, you only get a limited chance to analyse them. Even Queensland, as champions, won't be the same as last year, and they'll do things we can't plan for.

"So Samoa and Tonga give us the opportunity to play against sides that will do different things against us, and that's a challenge for us.

"It tests your defensive systems, it tests your decision-making and with decisions that are made by key people, how your team responds to those.

"You can often go into trials and get something physically out of them without necessarily trying to ascertain how you have done things."

With most top Samoans and Tongans playing Europe, the danger is both trials could be blow outs. Foley doubts it but said strong physical work at training had honed the team's edge regardless, and the players would be ready for Super Rugby later this month.

Meanwhile, new Waratahs skipper Rocky Elsom said "effective" is the new entertaining for the Tahs this year, and precise play will bring success and the crowds through the gates.

"People get frustrated by play that's not particularly effective, and we are the same with that," Elsom said at the Super Rugby season launch.

"Sometimes you can get pigeon holed and blamed for certain things, and kicking is the big one people often don't like seeing too much but I think if you kick effectively its a great part of the game. That's the challenge for us, to do it well enough to be successful and that's what will make people want to come to games and be happy to be there."

Something that could relevant to us!