Those little scuffles weren't happening last season. Good to see the fight back. But they're only worth it if the team goes on to score 10-20 points afterwards

Heff was chief scufflizer at the worst outbreak of handbags/slow dancing, pointed out to Butler by ref. Butler gave him an earful and Friend hooked him straight away, so I'd say the message got through. Bound to be the odd spillover against Zebre in a monsoon anyway.

connemara man wrote: the most worrying stat from the weekend is that during the double sin bin period the score line was 7-3

we only managed one score with two extra players and conceded a kickable penalty

The team allowed themselves to get dragged down to Zebre's level during the double advantage. Got into a couple of time/energy/focus consuming scuffles (e.g. post Jack getting chucked to the floor). Something that needs to be adressed...

Scrum is a ? for me.

First our 1st choice props are good, but not good enough for Ireland apparently. And their dominance hasn't been that clear in Pro14 (rarely dominated though)...
Second McCabe/Carey has been disappointed for now, McCoy/O'Donnell are still not tested enough... Will all be right and better than expected throughout the season? Maybe, the reverse is possible too, I don't know...

salmson wrote: Few notes on the ESPN stats (which are cool to have, not dissing them):

(1) You've cherry picked 3 statistics we lost on and ignored all the ones we won e.g. scrum, lineout!!! (surprised me too), mauls on a day when set piece was going to be everything.

(2) You got one of those statistics wrong: we came out the "right" side of the tackle count (tackle success rate 83% vs. Zebre 80%) despite having to make 50% more tackles.

(3) Missed tackles is a hopelessly crude measure, only useful over a season (i.e. you should be in the mid-80s). Pro sides score tackles based on a host of factors such as: did it stop/drive back the attacking player as opposed to just being a soak? Did the tackle present a turnover opportunity? Was a missed tackle actually an effective tackle (e.g. you stopped a player in full flight dead but fell off due to your momentum - counted as missed in made/missed stats - or you deliberately blitzed outside a player to prevent him passing outside/force him back into heavy traffic)?

(4) Stuff like territory/possession are meaningless, as we well know after 2 years of owning the ball and losing the games.

I wasn't trying to cherry pick stats, I should have elaborated more.
We won that match quite comfortably. But that dominance wasn't reflected on those stats I mentioned. The line-out started terrible, but once we coped they weren't really challenging we kept it simple, and kept the ball. Scrum was utterly dominant.

I agree that tackles is a crude measure, but we missed more tackles, and I think it is a a little on the high side of tackles to miss on a dirty night against a team like Zebre.

I guess i was more surprised to see those numbers, especially the attacking stats, or maybe we just played the conditions a bit smarter.

the most worrying stat from the weekend is that during the double sin bin period the score line was 7-3

we only managed one score with two extra players and conceded a kickable penalty

interesting point of view about missed tackles.
Still think the "limit cases" you're pointing are meaningless after a handful of games (not a whole season, let's say after compilation of smth like 300/400 tackles). Those quantitatives figures aren't qualitative but matters.

Though you're right, on a single game basis, it should be taken carefully. Missing 25% of your tackles should lead to a defeat 99% of the time. But difference between 85 and 87% completion on a day is indeed in the error margin you're pointing

Few notes on the ESPN stats (which are cool to have, not dissing them):

(1) You've cherry picked 3 statistics we lost on and ignored all the ones we won e.g. scrum, lineout!!! (surprised me too), mauls on a day when set piece was going to be everything.

(2) You got one of those statistics wrong: we came out the "right" side of the tackle count (tackle success rate 83% vs. Zebre 80%) despite having to make 50% more tackles.

(3) Missed tackles is a hopelessly crude measure, only useful over a season (i.e. you should be in the mid-80s). Pro sides score tackles based on a host of factors such as: did it stop/drive back the attacking player as opposed to just being a soak? Did the tackle present a turnover opportunity? Was a missed tackle actually an effective tackle (e.g. you stopped a player in full flight dead but fell off due to your momentum - counted as missed in made/missed stats - or you deliberately blitzed outside a player to prevent him passing outside/force him back into heavy traffic)?

(4) Stuff like territory/possession are meaningless, as we well know after 2 years of owning the ball and losing the games.

I was delighted to see us use our subs better than in just about every game we played last season. It was incredibly frustrating to repeatedly watch games that were in the balance, slip away because we left guys on the park 10 mins to long. Marmion, Faingaa and Delehunt were all on before the Zebre sin bins had expired and another 4 on by the 64 mins mark. last year we'd be making the first change around 64 mins.

however there are some worrying stats in here:

www.espn.com/rugby/matchstats?gameId=293246&league=270557

We come on the wrong side of:
Missed tackles
Line Breaks
Defenders beaten

O'Donnell and Robertson-McCoy were much better off the bench than McCabe and Carey had been last week. Delahunt also looked hungry when he came on. Thornberry is an upgrade on Cannon and I thought Roux played well. Butler and Boyle both played very well, and SOB2 will come on in leaps and bounds for that game. With Copeland to come in we're well provisioned in the back row. Blade and Carty were very good in general play again and Godwin showed his class at 12. Griffin took his try well and Healy and Kelleher look dangerous on the ball with their speed. TOH was better than last week, but still a bit off his best. It wouldn't surprise me to see Niyi in at 14 and Kelleher to FB next week.

I agree with all you points.
I feel where we also need some work is rucking out and getting clean ball for our 9. Sometimes it's a second or two too long getting out.

Glasgow v us and munster killed the ball.
We need to be more intelligent playing the big teams and for the ball carrier to get into the correct body position.

When we did get clean ball our backs speed of hand was amazing. Not many teams could cope with our back 3 with clean ball in hand and space.


quote="sligsup" post=62816]Couple of points to note:
Managing game when with extra men needs to be worked on.
Paul Boyle has being exceptional.
Kellehers best period since joining Connacht.
Friend seems intent on not flogging Buckley two 60 minute games so far which will mean game time for McCabe and O’Donnell which is a good thing.
Line out seems to work better when Cannon is calling it so definitely a work on for Thornbury.
Tiernan seems to have a pep in his step.
Looking forward to the test of Edinburgh.[/quote]

Couple of points to note:
Managing game when with extra men needs to be worked on.
Paul Boyle has being exceptional.
Kellehers best period since joining Connacht.
Friend seems intent on not flogging Buckley two 60 minute games so far which will mean game time for McCabe and O’Donnell which is a good thing.
Line out seems to work better when Cannon is calling it so definitely a work on for Thornbury.
Tiernan seems to have a pep in his step.
Looking forward to the test of Edinburgh.

To me this game just showed how much of a joke we were last season. Zebre are an honest outfit but desperately limited.

Crucially with a long run of games to come we got the bench emptied early and we move on.

Overall the performance was patchy but the scrum dominance laid the foundation. I'm a lot more positive than after 2 games last season but still a long way to go.

Edinburgh next week is a tough test and will be an indicator of what our realistic ambitions are for 18/19.

Boyle very much in the Muldoon mould, hard working without doing anything spectacular, I can see him becoming captain and being a very important asset to connacht. But let's see how he goes against some of the more talented back rows this season

It was great seeing all the kids going to the match.
Thanks Connacht for the free tickets it was nice to bring my kids

Sooooo good to see Cardiff beaten (again) in the 85th after 2 YC in extra-time.
Not only it matters for our conference table, but it is also such a good revange of the destiny against them after the exact same situation 4 years ago vs Connacht!!